Patrick Wellink

# re: Rad Race I don't Get it, Please help.....

Some answers to your questions:

1. You can create a dataform based on a table in a database connection. It's standard in VisStud. So no need for Oracle designer.
2. We have experience with that, but the RAD race team I was part of decided not to use it because it did not fit with the framework we wanted to use.
3 We used a Codegen tool (CodeSmith) to generate code. But we had problems with one of the templates.

The templates will soon be upgraded, so they will not have any unwanted side effects. Such as stripping some parts of database column names.

There are also plans to build UI templates. These templates will generate a WinForms interface or an ASP.Net interface. But these things take time.

I'm sure that if we had these templates we would have given the Oracle boys a hard time.

# re: Rad Race I don't Get it, Please help.....

Thanks for the clarification Jan.....

But do we really have to build it ourselves.... Isn't there a smart company that has already build a full featured CodeGenerator
including UI, Business rules etc.....

So we can Draw the dam'n thing hit the generate button and only add some minor tweaks..........

# re: Rad Race I don't Get it, Please help.....

You'd have your O/R Mappers, but most of the time these don't add GUI. Why should they? It's not their job.

And code generators like CodeSmith could add this and probably have the templates online.

What did Jan do to the column names that the templates screwed up?

# re: Rad Race I don't Get it, Please help.....

I didn't say Jan Screwed up.....

His templates were screwed up......

# re: Rad Race I don't Get it, Please help.....

I'm not saying both, I might be implying however! ;)

I said the templates screwed up, because of some weird table names or something.

# re: Rad Race I don't Get it, Please help.....

Guys, it was very simple. I had one template that generated code that did not compile. That was my fault. I somehow managed to get a version that was NOT in our source safe database.

BUT, the templates remove everything from the column until the first underscore. So if you have something like ddd_mycolumnname in your table, the templates would use mycolumnname in all the generated code, with the exception of the stored procedures.

Apparently, this behaviour was intentional. But it's pretty annoying, and time consuming, when you look at the database design and the code doesn't match.

But I believe that unwanted behaviour will soon change!

# re: Rad Race I don't Get it, Please help.....

Well i have another thread running about code generation.......

i mean dow e really have to build it ourselves...

The Oracle designer isn't a build it yourself tool.. it is a propbably pretty expensive product that does the job well....

# re: Rad Race I don't Get it, Please help.....

We also had generated code that didn't compile (lblgen based solution).

Patrick, I've been there, I used Oracle Developer/Designer and I knew that they had a great chance on winning. Why? Well, you didn't have a look at there UI. It looks like, like, well you know like, looks like something like, well like a generated Oracle Designer application. And yes: we should do more, be more productive and CodeGen is one side of the equation, knowing the power of your IDE is the other ;-).
Oracle Designer is great for RAD and needs non demanding customers.
'I want that field to the left'
'No, you don't'
'Yes I really want that'
'Ok, I will generate the app, Start up Forms Developer, navigate through the generated code/forms, apply the change you requested, and add this change to the Post-Generation document'
Just ask some Oracle guys about designer and they all probably had a Post-Generation document and on the size of this document you could tell if they used the right tool. And no, there are no generators for the post generation steps :-)

# re: Rad Race I don't Get it, Please help.....

Well i mean we could generate once......
and from then on Program ourselves....

# re: Rad Race I don't Get it, Please help.....

The point of Oracle Designer is that you can always re-generate. (like the Borg do). Generate once sounds to me as rather useless in new development (but will be handy if you have a datamodel that is rock solid), I'd rather propose something like generate 'add-ons'. You should look into those matters in your search for Codegenerators. But we both agree that we want to focus on business rules not on the plumbing.

# re: Rad Race I don't Get it, Please help.....

Okay, now I need to step in here ;-) Comparing Designer to the Borg, tsk. Don't you like Borg?

As you know I worked with Visual Studio, Java and Designer. The point is that codegen is the way to go always. It is not only for undemanding customers. We have made great systems for demanding sites and they are happy. I was a memeber of the jury and I was disappointed to see that C# and Java teams ended on the same level. Mainly because time was wasted on the plumbing. In Designer you can focus on the business logic and you don't have to worry if your screens will work. The ICT industry needs people that can do the plumbing but I don't think our customers should pay us to do that. Let Microsoft and Oracle make compilers for us, let us assemble apps using components and codegenerators. And if the customer wants a field at the left: you can do that with Designer :-) Really. We need not to judge the tools but make up our minds on how we do application development. It is a shame that after 30 years we still don't have the tools that do the work for us. (Ow except Oracle, because thay have the tools ;-) I almost forgot. But now we jump on the Java bandwagon, the collective memory of Designer is erased and at Oracle projects we also are doing plumbing. <Sigh>.

Bas

# re: Rad Race I don't Get it, Please help.....

Borg sounded pretty good to me...

We Are Oracle Designers, You will adapt a nice UI is Futile...

# re: Rad Race I don't Get it, Please help.....

It is hilarious that you guys compare Oracle to the Borg that assimilate complete civilizations. Haha. Isn't that ironic for Microsoft adepts.

# re: Rad Race I don't Get it, Please help.....

Well Borg NEVER assimilated the human species completely.......

# Oracle Developer Tools for Visual Studio .NET Beta 2 is out ...

# Oracle Developer Tools for Visual Studio .NET Beta 2 is out ...